“I’m glad I didn’t have a girl. She wouldn’t get to leave the house until she’s 30!”

The Happy Feminist posted about this kind of comment, and she boils it down (mostly, anyway) to a father’s perception of a daughter as a sexual being — in this case, one that should be preserved and protected from *gasp* anything physical. (My words, not hers…read the full post for her perspective.)

The comments on this are fascinating, and I’m impressed with the caliber of folks having a discussion without getting nasty toward each other. Buried down in the comments, the conversation turns to date rape, and how gender roles/attitudes may give boys the wrong idea about pushing for sex. One commenter suggests being direct about it:

How about just talking with your sons about rape. “Son, real sex is when two people want to be physical with each other. If one of the people doesn’t *want* to, then it’s not real sex and it’s probably rape. If she consents, but she doesn’t *want* it, she’s just okay with letting it happen it to her, that’s not what sex is supposed to be about either. It’s supposed to be about mutual desire.”

(emphasis added)

You know, I’ve come to terms with what happened nearly 2-1/2 years ago…yet I haven’t. Long ago, my counselor explained to me (after a lengthy discussion) that while what I experienced wasn’t *technically* rape, it emotionally could take the same toll. I’ve struggled with wanting to believe that, but then often still feeling like it was All. My. Fault.

Without a doubt, I could have made better choices that night. Does that mean that the guy is vindicated? No, it doesn’t. I know this intellectually, but there’s still a big part of me that heaved a sigh of relief to see someone else write those words in bold above.

Just thinking…

Added:
Another comment paints a pretty clear picture of how grey this subject can be. This sounds so familiar to me…SO familiar.

A very personal comment on “pressuring”: I was dating a guy in college who came to visit me over the summer at my parents. He *really* wanted to have sex after having made the drive to visit. (My parents are very anti-premarital sex and were adamant that such things not happen in their house.) We were watching a movie after everyone else had gone to bed and he suggested sex. I said no because I wasn’t really interested, I was extremely aware of how opposed my parents were, and the room where we were watching TV isn’t exactly private. He persisted. I said no again. He’d leave the topic alone for fifteen minutes, then start rubbing and kissing my neck. I gave up trying to pull away and this went on. After TWO HOURS of this “please, I really want to,” “no, I’m not comfortable” rountine, I’d had enough and gave in because I was sick of fighting about it, it would last five minutes, and then I’d get left alone for the weekend.

Did I say yes? Yep. Did I really want to have sex? No. I wouldn’t call it criminal or sexual assault, but I’m typing this and still angry. Angry because I didn’t stand up for myself and angry at him for thinking this was an acceptable way to behave. That’s what’s wrong with pressuring. I don’t need a legalistic definition to tell you how wrong that night was.

And I guarantee you, there are thousands of women like me, who’ve said yes because they were sick of talking about why not.

(raising my hand) I didn’t even ever say yes…but I did finally stop saying no.

The comments thread continues in this vein — about whose responsibility it is to stop rape, and whether it’s okay or not for a guy (sometimes a girl, but usually a guy) to pressure a girl into sex. One commenter made the argument that it’s up to the female to say no, and that it’s inate for the male to push for sex. I mean really, heaven forbid that a guy should tame his base urges, right? BLECH.

The blog owner made an argument that there’s a difference between pressure and seduction. I especially appreciated this line:

Young men should be brought up not to think in terms of “what works” but to think in terms of sex as something that should be always be a totally consensual and mutually rewarding act.”

Amen, sister.